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- Item 5202852 10-Feb-91 15:54GMT
-
- From: UK0392 EHN & DIJ Oakley,BDV
-
- To: DAWSON.M Dawson, Mark
- MACAPP.TECH$ MacApp Technical
-
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Sub: Re: (long)C++/MacApp 3.0 comme
-
- Mark and friends,
-
- Thank you for trying to allay our fears about the impending conversion of
- MacApp into C++. I am afraid that many of your points do the exact opposite!
-
- >(1) If you currently use the MPW enviroment, there will be ALMOST NO AFFECT on
- >you. The MacApp team WILL make the 3.0 link-compatible with Object Pascal.
- I am afraid that I do use the MacApp source a great deal, and on occasion have
- been known to derive my code from it or even to modify it. This will be
- largely lost to me - I have not yet even found time to read the C++ manual
- (vast as it is). I am suspect that, if any benefit is to accrue to MacApp, it
- will end up being more powerful when used with C++ than from OP - just as C++
- folk are currently second-class MacAppers, so OP users will be henceforth.
- Just as my customers are not prepared to be second class, neither can I.
-
- >They also said they would shy away from using pieces of C++ that, though may
- >be more efficient, would be harder to read for non-C/C++ programmers.
- Catch 22, MacApp will be stunted deliberately.
-
- >(3) SourceBug, a new source-level debugger that is supposed to be available
- >(in an Alpha version) on the ETO #3 disk, seems to be very similar to the
- >Think-Pascal debugger.
- Great, an alpha debugger to use with my beta MPW to try to produce stable
- release code - presumably we will have many months of MacApp 3.0 betas as well?
- Where does this put folk having to ship real products for System 7 release?
-
- >(4) The MacApp team promised to make available documentation and MPW scripts
- >describing what and how to convert from Object Pascal to C++ (if you decide
- >that's the way to go).
- I still think that (even assuming that I learned C++ overnight) porting my 8+
- megabytes of OP source will cause a great deal of grief, and a hiatus that we
- cannot accept.
-
- >(5) Apple did promise to help out Think Pascal users; what form that might
- >take was not discussed.
- This smacks of the politician's answer, to a question that they had not yet
- anticipated let alone tackled.
-
- >(6) Steve Jasik (of "The Debugger" fame) said that it would be difficult to
- >provide the same level of debugging for a C++ MacApp that he can for an
- >Object-Pascal one.
- Great, let's kill another invaluable tool, and finish off someone else who has
- made a vital contribution to Mac development.
-
- >(10) Eric Berdahl agreed to do a series of articles that will appear in
- >Frameworks that will explain how to read C++, convert from Object Pascal to
- >C++, and eventually some of the nice things you can do in C++.
- Much appreciated, and there is no shortage of books on C++ to supplement the
- vast Apple C++ manual. Will someone offer to come and do it all for me, or at
- least fund the conversion, and all the beta testing?
-
- >(11) By using C++, MacApp 3.0 programs are currently (thinks could change) a
- >little SMALLER than their 2.0 counterparts (so it looks like MacApp may have
- >stopped growing).
- I'll believe that when I see it - ever since we started on the MacApp kick,
- with 1.1.1, every new version has seen an almost exponential increase in source
- size, and an increase in executable size too. I do not worry so much about
- that. What does worry me is code maintainability, code reliability, and code
- readability. I will be interested to hear of anyone who can claim that C++
- will improve any of those.
-
- I see portability increasingly cited as a reason to use C++ (although of course
- in the last year or so OP has actually been implemented on the PC as well).
- This is only useful in the context of MacApp *if* MacApp is ported to other
- platforms. Now, *if* that were to happen, it would only be of much value if
- the other platforms included PCs under Windows - in which case, I think very
- few products would ever debut on the Mac, and only a small fraction would even
- be ported. Offering MacApp on other platforms would be giving away what to me
- is at least a goodly part of the Crown Jewels - and moving it into C++ is
- melting them down and trying to refashion them!
-
- Would anyone be interested in starting an independent and co-operative MacApp
- 3.0 development in Object Pascal? I am not sure how we would need to licence
- it, but it might be a much better answer to our problems than the official
- version.
-
- Regards, Howard.
-
-